[choklitbean]

I came across a Sheltie site that had links to other sites and noticed that a few talked about how to tape or glue the pups ears so they would have the proper ear set. One even said that they encouraged new owners to do this for the whole first year to ensure good ears so that their kennel name would continue to have a good reputation.

How prevelant is the ear taping? It looks as though it is quite normal and even to some degree expected. Is this "cheating"? If the breed standard calls for tipped ears and the pups ears won't tip naturally then why breed those dogs, or why not change the breed standard to include dogs with prick ears?

[choklitbean]

Got my answer. It is more likely shelties will have prick ears rather than tipped and so taping the ears is obviously the norm. They don't call it cheating because the ears aren't being held that way in the show ring, that is considered cheating (I can't see much difference myself). The reason they put up with the ear taping is because "it's cute".

[chh]

What's the difference between prick & tipped ears?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] I've heard of taping before, but never really understood how that could alter the natural ear position. This is completely unrelated to ear cropping, right?

[Shonna]

Ear taping is completely unrelated to ear cropping. My collie had 1 tipped ear and one prick ear when I got him at 4 months and I decided to let his ears be, now both are prick (or straight). I've noticed while watching dog shows all collies and shelties have tipped ears, so I'm guessing it's the breed standard (if you are going to show).

[Shonna]

Ear taping is completely unrelated to ear cropping. My collie had 1 tipped ear and one prick ear when I got him at 4 months and I decided to let his ears be, now both are prick (or straight). I've noticed while watching dog shows all collies and shelties have tipped ears, so I'm guessing it's the breed standard (if you are going to show).

[choklitbean]

Prick ears stand erect all the way to the top, while tipped ears fall forward 1/4 to 1/3 of the way from the top. Prick ears are considered a fault in the show ring.

Taping (or gluing) the tops of the ears into a forward position before and during the time the ear cartilage hardens (somewhere between 7 weeks and 7 months depending on the breed, ear taping is done in other breeds as well) causes the ear to take the shape you want it to have. The standard also calls for the ears to be positioned quite close together (over the head) and so some breeders will tie the dogs ears together until the ear position is set, somewhere around 8-12 weeks I believe.

I personally don't understand why if most Shelties have normally prick ears it isn't made part of the breed standard. But then who knows why people do a lot of the things they do.

[rotti-gal]

If you are not going to title your dog in conformation, regardless of the breed, don`t bother taping them. Show dogs are that breed`s future breeding stock and therefore must meet their breed standard.

[choklitbean]

"Show dogs are that breeds future breeding stock and therefore must meet their breeds standard"

But if the ears have to be taped to conform to the standard then they are not conforming are they. They are simply "cheating" to hide the fact that their dogs don't conform and therefore genetically reproducing dogs that don't conform by breeding stock whose ears were incorrect in the first place.

If the show people were really interested in breeding dogs that conformed to the standard they would cull all the puppies with prick ears from their breeding program or do the sensible thing and include prick ears in the standard seeing as it is such a silly thing to be stuck on anyway (I never met a dog yet that died because of its ear set).

Which is exactly my point.

[rotti-gal]

I think you misunderstood my post. Culling pet quality pups would be very cruel and leave very few dogs as only maybe one or two of the litter, or maybe even none of them would be show quality. What I ment to say was there is no reason to subject a pet quality dog to taping, weighting down, glueing, etc. They are not going to show or breed, so why do it? Love them and enjoy them as the loving pets that they are.
As far as taping ear set on show pups, during teething many pup`s ears tend to fly away, flop over, whatever. The cartilage is still supple and the ear set is trained by taping. If the pup is well bred and otherwise correct to the standard, why ruin a show dog`s future by neglecting to do this?

[choklitbean]

Yes, perhaps I did misunderstand.

By culling I meant removing them from the breeding program, putting them in pet homes where they are spayed or nuetered, not killing them. That would be cruel.

I know the cartilage is very soft and fly away during teething but the ears should come back if that is the genetics, should they not.

I guess my real problem is on the (in my mind anyway) rediculousness of placing so much value on ear set. Ear taping is an uncomfortable thing for a puppy and, really it has no benefit to the improvement of the breed does it? I think the woman who answered my question, a sheltie person, said it best when she said they do it because it's "cute". There is no other reason for it. So because of that I can see no purpose in torturing (a strong word, I know) a puppy when they could just simply say that prick ears are also allowed.

In my mind this is really not much different than cropping a dobermans or boxers ears, other than it is more uncomfortable than painful. The doberman is born with naturally dropped ears but because of some human fancy (the purpose of ear cropping has long since died) the dogs are still subjected to such nonsence.

You are correct in saying "why ruin a show dogs future by neglecting to do this". It would ruin a show dogs future, but why should it? The breeds herding ability was not founded on it's ears. It's potential as a great dog with so much to give has nothing to do with how far the tips of its ears bend or don't bend.

The kennel clubs tell everyone to buy registered dogs because the people who are breeding and showing do so for the love of the breed and to preserve the breed as it should be. This is time and again shown to not be the case. The show breeders have not "preserved" but "produced" a breed according to their liking, not what the dog was intended for in the first place.

So many breeds are only a shadow of what they really were because of breeding for looks and "fashion". They have ceased to be anything but a cookie cutter image and so many are riddled with disease because of the closing of stud books and inbreeding, also called line breeding, to set a "type" instead of breeding for a purpose.

After so many years of this now the show people are faced with having to do what sometimes costs thousands of dollars in genetic testing and having to cull countless dogs from breeding programs in order to try to breed out the diseases they have bred in in their search for a physical ideal. The placement of ears and tail sets is just one of the many misguided reasons for breeding a dog, others would include length and quantity of coat. But these things are so often pushed to the forefront in breeding programs.

How many show cocker spaniels can still hunt? How many show German Shepherds can still herd or do police work? How many show Siberians can still pull a sled with speed and grace? Keep going down the list - it's scary! In most cases the people who use the dogs for their intended purpose won't buy from show lines because the dogs are incapable of doing the job as well as being quite unhealthy compared to the working lines of the breed.

Sorry for the rant. I got a little off topic but I just can't help getting angry when I see fashion and a blue ribbon become the reason for breeding a dog.

[rotti-gal]

Nothing to be sorry for, nor were you off topic at all in your post. I agree with much of what you say. Tail and ear docking is banned in many countries, but a tailed rottie or cocker would never be given a second look at a show here. Thankfully, natural ears are allowed in many breeds, danes, boxers, etc. In working breeds there are working lines and show lines. There are only about 3 kennels in the USA I would buy a show rottie from. Other countries put the dogs through testing in conformation, temperament, courage, etc. before allowing the dog to be bred at all. In show lines ear set and tail set are important because the standard and the judge says so. I couldn`t agree more about breeding for points alone. A working breed show dog that has a CH in front of their name should also have a string of obedience titles behind it.

[Rottnbelle]

I am late stepping in here on the ear issue. I did have a border collie and a full sized collie and both of them had perfect ears even though neither of them was for showing or breeding. I think it is cuter when the ears tip over just a bit, otherwise the dog looks surprised! Just my opinion and if either of them hadn't had the required ear set, it would not have mattered to me. I do not tape my rotties ears either as I believe massage does a lot more for the cartilage than taping. Whatever the ears look like makes your dog special.

Lynn, Jugendliebe Rottweilers
Moderator, Dog Breeds, Dog Behavior, Show Ring & Grooming Tips
"Breeder of Oz the Amazing", owned and loved by Dawn Fillips
Inga at Westminster

[choklitbean]

You are so right, massage does do a lot for cartalidge! I bought a mini dachsie (many years ago) who had a folded ear. Other than that she was stunning. I spent time each day massaging the ear and got it to lay straight. The breeder saw her a few months later and was so shocked, he said that if he had known how beautiful she would turn out he never would have sold her.

I have a little sheltie pup here (thus the question) whose ears were prick (personally I love prick ears) but I folded the tips over and rubbed them each day and now she has perfect little ears and she enjoyed getting them. Not that it really matters to me, I don't show, nor am I likely to ever want to.

Mostly I like to just see ears happen how they happen. Of my three border collies not one of them has even similar ears. One has prick ears with one tip that will occasionally fall, one has folded ears that stand one third and fall forward, and the last has folded ears that stick straight out the side like "The Flying Nun". Variety is the spice of life.:)

[choklitbean]

Just thought I would mention that my dogs ears aren't considered incorrect because the breed standard for a working border collie is simply that they can herd sheep, which they do just fine. There is no physical standard.